I have 0 musical education so I really can't form a valid opinion.
Who are some musical geniuses in your opinion?
Even though I am not a fan of the Beatles music, so many musicians I do like credit them as influences that I have to say they were.
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ERhino1965 |
Musical Geniuses |
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In talking to others and seeing the News some are referring to Michael as a musical genius. He was popular, had some good songs, great entertainer, and sold a
boatload of records. I would call him a great entertainer, but I don't think he was a genius. I don't hear other artists listing him as an
inspiration or his work cited as classic or revolutionary.
I have 0 musical education so I really can't form a valid opinion. Who are some musical geniuses in your opinion? Even though I am not a fan of the Beatles music, so many musicians I do like credit them as influences that I have to say they were. |
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BuckeyeTillEyeDie |
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Joyce Dewitt.
What I do today is important because I am paying a day of my life for it. What I accomplish must be worthwhile because the price is high.
The best Head on the NET!!! |
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ChicJanowicz2 |
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"There is also plenty of good metal out of which can be formed a foot ball team that would do credit to the O. S. U.
Let us have a Varsity team that would do honor to its name." - The
Lantern, February 24, 1886
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Eitzel18 |
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BuckeyeTillEyeDie wrote:The correct answer would be David Hasselhoff. |
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buki919 |
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No way Michael Jackson was a musical genius (imo). He was a little ahead of his time to some degree, but musically NO WAY.
Last Edited By: buki919
07/01/09 11:14 AM.
Edited 2 times.
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BuckeyeTillEyeDie |
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Frank Zappa.
What I do today is important because I am paying a day of my life for it. What I accomplish must be worthwhile because the price is high.
The best Head on the NET!!! |
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BuckeyenACCland |
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buki919 wrote: Sounds like a little personal influence there Buki in your decision to say he is not a genius. Like him or hate him, he sold millions (billions?) of records. Millions of people love him, have seen him in concert, go crazy for him. Thriller still sells a few hundred thousand albums per year. He sold out 50+ shows I think in Europe before he died. He created a mass following for his music/performances, supposedly influenced an entire TV network in MTV and energized an entire plastic surgery industry. |
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Fulltimenut |
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It's hard to be a pop artist and a theatrical musician and be considered a musical genius. I'd call him an innovator with a great sense of the
industry. People like Madonna right on down to Brit Spears owe him a lot, IMO.
Buying the rights to the Beatles recordings was genius, IMO. |
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Eitzel18 |
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buki919 wrote:It's an interesting question. Was the Carter Family geniuses (collectively)? They established a lot of standards of today that we don't recognize as"hits" because they seem like they have always existed. Was Robert Johnson a genius? He recorded a ton of music on the fly, some of it sounding like two guitars when only one was playing (allegedly). Cole Porter? Or did they do what the Beatles did - chameleons who were publicly able to stay a year or two ahead of current trends, but realistically took e someone else's style and were able to write a better songs? There are a ton of great musical performers this century, Michael Jackson included. The greatest band that ever existed ever, The Jam, was three chords and a bucket of sweat -- highly entertaining, but not geniuses by any definition. Elvis Costello has done a lot of music from various genres, and most of the non-Darryl Hall stuff is very good so I would have to give this some thought. But then you look at the productivity of someone like Haydn and it couldn't possibly compare. |
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Fighter59 |
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Did he even write his own music?
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BuckeyenACCland |
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Was PT Barnum a genius? Bill Gates? If I found a way to sell $5 million people something for $10 and it cost me $.50 to make, does that make me a genius? Where
does influence come in to play in the equation? Just being smart doesn't make one a genius. Or does it?
I like turtles. I'm going back to work. |
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Eitzel18 |
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Fighter59 wrote:That's a great question. He of course has songwriting credits on a lot of his songs, and when he was a kid one of the big conflicts with MoTown is that they had their own songwriters - they didn't want their acts trying their own hands at it and wasting time. But about that song writing credit... I made a trip on a Saturday a few months back and was in the car for most of the day. I happened to catch an interview program featuring Carol Kaye, a session bass player through the '50s and beyond. She did everything - jazz, blues, Motown, pop, and was in with so many great artists. She was one of the first session players to excel at the "Fender bass", so she got a ton of work. She also had the bass with her and played some bass runs while she discussed certain songs or artists. There were two things that I found fascinating (but not surprising) about the interview. The first is that the music in her day was fairly loose, and she was extremely busy - sometimes recording in two or three different studios in a day. So you can imagine, she walked in, saw the music, played it straight for a take, played it loose with however the mood struck her, and was back in her car on to the next gig. She told a story about walking in to Mel Torme's session for "Games People Play", where she was given a very stoic bassline. They played the song several times and it sunk like a rock. When she got frustrated and no longer cared about fearing what the Producer might think of something else, she started messing around with the bass line and funked it up. The other studio musicians folled and they cut it like that. Mel's writing, but nothing like what he envisioned. The second point was that many of the big names of the day -- The Beach Boys specifically - had session musicians for their albums and then used the band members for the tours. Many times, the main songwritere was the only member in the studio and they had to teach the other members the new songs for the tours. For Pet Sounds, Biran Wilson was the only guy around, other than studio musicians. They helped to shape everything on that album, although she said the ideas all came from Brian. But listening to the interview, then listening to Pet Sounds now makes me think more about what a blast it would have been to be a part of that creative group more than I think about Brian's musical genius as a result of what "he" (now "they") created. The reason I say all of this is because when I see "writing credit", I know how the songs can evolve and each mucisan builds off one another in a real band. If you have a group of go-to session musicians that not only play with MJ, but also on dozens of records in between, is the sound more about Michael shaping the music, or the session musicians shaping his sound? |
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IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY |
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ChicJanowicz2 wrote: Drank too much pepsi.
"A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise
free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good
government and this is necessary to close the circle of our happiness." Thomas Jefferson
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Elkhorn2 |
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Bert Berns
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IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY |
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Rick Fay
"A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise
free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good
government and this is necessary to close the circle of our happiness." Thomas Jefferson
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Hang on Buckeye Girl |
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I would go Prince over MJ as far as musical genius goes in 80s pop.
Now, I think that only Madonna, Elvis, and the Beatles rival MJ as far as persona is concerned. |
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BuzzBuckinNY |
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Paige
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UAGoldenBuckeye |
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I think you could make a very good argument for Michael Jackson as the greatest entertainer of all time, but a musical genius? Not so much. Some people can
sing well and some people can dance well, Michael Jackson was/is the only person to do both as well as he did. However, musically I believe he is far behind
some of the names mentioned above. Obviously the Beatles are the standard by which all others will be measured as well as the likes of Elvis, Bob Dylan, the
Rolling Stones, etc. However, artists like Buddy Holly or the Everly Brothers I would even venture to say were more impressive from a musical and creativity
standpoint. The way John Lennon and Paul McCartney sing together and complement each other in the early Beatles songs is taken straight from the Everly
Brothers, and Buddy Holly basically gave everybody that came after him the blue print for how to form a rock band.
Would love to hear someone like Tri who knows a whole lot more about music than I do chime in on this. Also I figure this is as good a time as any to get this plug in. I have been watching quite a few Beatles videos on Youtube lately and every time I see John Lennon he looks more and more like Chic. |
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BuckeyeTillEyeDie |
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Oh, bad news for chic...
feeling ok chic? What I do today is important because I am paying a day of my life for it. What I accomplish must be worthwhile because the price is high.
The best Head on the NET!!! |
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Fulltimenut |
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How 'bout
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IUZ22000 |
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When it comes to musical genius I think of instrumental or vocal capability. Madonna.....self promotion genius, not a musical genius. Pop music appeals to
more of an audience and also a less sophisticated audience, therefore you will always have some turd burglar saying that some "pop" icon is a genius
when they were probably a product of superior marketing or a fad, ala disco era, boy bands, etc. etc. Some rock icons also have been pop icons but I guess it
is up to the individual person on where a specific group/solo performer lands......Elvis, the Beatles etc. etc.
Buddy Rich was a genius. No explanation necessary. Jimi Hendrix was a musical genius. He was self taught and completely changed the landscape of rock music after the Monterey Music Festival. Bob Dylan was a lyrical genius. Stevie Wonder is a genius. Jimmy Page is a genius. Pete Townshend is a genius. Freddie Mercury was a genius. The list could be extensive depending on what your criteria is. I agree with Chic, Ray Charles was a genius. Michael Jackson is probably the #1 solo entertainer ever(Elvis maybe??) but he is a pop genius not a musical genius per se. He sang and danced but had the genius of Quincy Jones to help his career immensley, too. He isn't the best singer, he isn't anywhere near a instrumental genius, but he had as much charisma as any entertainer and appealed to a very wide audience. He is probably the most over exposed icon ever and anyone who grew up in the 1980's will attest, you could not go 10 minutes without a MJ song being played on the radio. No one was marketed more or better then him and the initial video craze on MTV made him even more of a public figure that you could not get away from. If not for MTV and his million dollar videos the legend of MJ would not be anywhere near as big as it is. |
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